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Friday, March 21, 2008

That damned contract

What's Mallard raving about today?

Gun Laws, Violent Criminals.

But, but, but...if what you say about gun laws affect on the criminal mentality is correct, then Washington D.C. should indisputably be the most violent U.S. city, shouldn't it? Won't any evidence to the contrary prove conclusively that the causes of violent crime are much more complicated than such simpleton notions as the ones Mallard is bleating?

An interesting tidbit I picked up along the way, which further highlights what a simplistic sack of crap Mallard is when he claims that putting guns into the hands of law-abiding citizens is The Answer: "Though nearly 100 percent of murder suspects have criminal records, 90 percent of victims also have criminal records."

23 comments:

Michael said...

DaveyK, the solution is easy: we need to arm ALL the criminals.

Wait, no, that's not right...

exanonymous said...

Guns are legal in Ohio. Hey, lookie, two of my favorite cities! Youngstown and Cleveland! #9 and #7 respectively. Thank gawd the lawabiding citizens can pack heat, or we'd be #4 and #5.

Personal story: I've known first-hand that owning a gun doesn't make life better. Ask a landlord down my street. A rental property was ransacked while no one was home. The landlord upon learning about it came with his gun to defend himself should the burgler return to take more items. It took a tragic turn when it was not the burgler that returned but the tenant herself. Now he has to live with the fact that he took the life of person who rented the property he was defending.

The NRA can give whatever excuses it wants, but the guy legally owned a gun and used it for the supposedly good purpose of self-defense and it still ended up in an innocent's death.

BillyWitchDoctor said...

Exanonymous, you already know the NRA response: If the tenant had been properly armed, she probably could've shot back! COLD DEAD HANDS! COLD DEAD HAAAAAAAANDS!!!1

Piggybacking on something I mentioned yesterday: there are plenty of guns in Oakland, yet the crime rate is through the roof (particularly homicides involving guns--go figure). How does that figure into Brown-Bagged Violent Criminal's "logic," Tinny? (By which I mean your logic, and Christ I wish I had a better word to use...)

Kaitlyn said...

Oh look! Memphis is number 13! I'm gonna go get me a gun!


I think that can get me kicked out of the dorm, if anyone finds out. And they will - I'm not a rule breaker, after all, I'm arming myself because the rule breakers are already armed.

I can't see me ever owning a gun - too dangerous, I'm too much of a worrier, and my dad carries one! (I don't want to be like him, sure it's required because he's a cop...)

confused said...

Yes! My city made the top 25 Most Dangerous! (or is that bottom 25?) And we have this statute on the books:

Under Florida law, there is no "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a lawful right to be. Instead, you may stand your ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others

By Tinny's logic (sorry BWD), my city should have no crime at all. I guess we need to start requiring guns...

TuxedoSlack said...

You can call what he uses "logic", Billy; just remember at all times (should be easy enough) that his logic does not resemble our Earth logic.

rewinn said...

Today's strip is carefully written to assert an untruth.

The script uses "remained ... top city" to imply that things did not get better. Yet, in fact the violent crime rate DID go down.

The text may be literally true, and it is used to assert an untruth. The nuns at St. Mary Magdalen explained carefully (sometimes with the aid of a paddle) that that is the same as lying.

It's as is Tinsley weighed 400 pounds, dieted and lost 100 pounds. Using his logic, you would say he was still fat, and therefore that dieting doesn't help you lose weight.

One could speculate why it is that the strip has careful writing only when careful writing is needed to spread a lie.

Dave Robidenza said...

I might be splitting hairs, but what percent of those "violent crimes" are committed with guns? That would give a clearer picture of both how much the law is (allegedly) ineffective at preventing gun violence as well as how banning guns (allegedly) leads to an increase in violent crime.

But I guess that would be too close to an honest discussion of the issue for Mallard, who calls DC one of the most dangerous cities in the US yet the above linked ranking shows DC at #19 overall by population (you know, the same rate the neocons have used to "prove" that Iraq is no more dangerous than Philadelphia on a violent deaths per population rate). I found another site that showed DC not even in the top 25 for 2007.

And the paper sack thing really bugs me. Couldn't he have drawn the stereotypical "Muggsy" criminal or at least used a ski mask to make it look like a real criminal or at least the popular imagination of one?

Interestingly, Berke Breathed did similarly-themed strips in Bloom County, except it was criminals claiming their livelihood was being threatened when drugs were make legal. I highly doubt we'll see such a gag in MF, however.

exanonymous said...

DC is dangerous! Autotheft went up! Cars need more guns! *insert random ellipses and crappy drawings here*

I vote Disney makes a sequel to Cars. "Cars: The Wild East". There will be shootouts galore for the kiddies to show them how guns prevent crimes in DC!

Michael said...

Look, our country has the most guns in the world - about 200 million. That's why we have the lowest crime rate in the world, and the least gun-related homicides. Statistics to the contrary are guilty of media bias.

The fact that we have the highest incarcerated population in the world (>1% of the population) is only due to the fact that our cops are great at arresting people. The fact that 1 in 9 black males aged 20-34 are in prison is because blacks are committing that many more crimes.

Case closed. What our system really needs is more guns and less liberals. Also, lowering taxes will decrease crime; I'm not sure how yet, but I'll get back to you when I think of something.

Anonymous said...

Michael's somewhat heavy-handed attempt at irony does contain a nugget of inconvenient truth: See The Color of Crime.

BillyWitchDoctor said...

I knew some cowardly bastard would whip out some racist hogwash on this subject eventually, but man, that was a quick reaction to Michael's post. Must've struck a nerve.

Michael said...

My post wasn't "somewhat" heavy-handed, anonymous; that was about as heavy-handed as it gets.

I looked up "The Color of Crime" (because you didn't provide a link) and all I could find was a publication by American Renaissance, a white separatist organization. I'll admit if I'm wrong about something, but if you're going to source white nationalists, don't bother.

I bet you're pissed the bag-headed mugger doesn't have darker hands in this cartoon.

Michael said...

Oops, that link should have been this, the Anti-Defamation League's profile of the racist in question.

Frosty said...

"Though nearly 100 percent of murder suspects have criminal records, 90 percent of victims also have criminal records." Proves nothing about gun laws. There's a hint there that a lot of gun crime is gang related. The other 10% of victims are perhaps you and I and those we love. The race of homicide offenders and victims is likely to be black: (Bureau of Justice).

The most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington D.C. have kept that city at or near the top for most homicides for years. (CDC 1981-1998 and CDC 199-2005)

The articles cited in this thread are published by for profit entities. You can get the real data directly by state and here by city from the FBI.

Gun crime does not increase in proportion to the number of guns in this country, if it did, we'd all have been wounded, dead, or dying long before now.

Criminals look for unarmed victims. Wouldn't you? Just because they're criminals doesn't mean they're stupid. Victimize someone who might be armed or someone prohibited from keeping and bearing arms. No brainer.

Mallard Fillmore is a 'toon, for gosh sakes.

Guns are used far more often to save lives and prevent crime in this country without even firing shots than to commit gun related crimes. (Comparitive Studies.)

Face the facts and get past it to deal with reality instead of wishful thinking.

BillyWitchDoctor said...

Frosty said: Mallard Fillmore is a 'toon, for gosh sakes.

It's the same technique Rush Limbaugh uses; while spewing out garbage, Rush, like Tinsley, is boldly "speaking truth to power," but when called on their complete and utter horseshit, Rush is always "just joking when I said that," and Mallard Fillmore is "just a cartoon."

Frosty, I'm not sure why you even brought up race here, except to build upon anonymous' earlier race-baiting; congratulations on being a scumbag.

The rest of your post is standard-issue bait-and-switch verbal gymnastics. (Ah, the "for-profit" thing: so utterly inconsequential when we're talking about tobacco companies, global warming research, or big oil...but suddenly a solid deal breaker when one is defending gun manufacturers' profits.)

I love how you couch the argument thusly: a person is either carrying a gun, or completely unarmed. In your brain-damaged world, there is no other option.

Idiot.

Frosty said...

"Frosty, I'm not sure why you even brought up race here, except to build upon anonymous' earlier race-baiting; congratulations on being a scumbag."

So, rather than present a cogent counterargument, billywitchdoctor, you play the scumbag card and associate me with your favorite "garbage" spewers to avoid any kind of meaningful discussion.

You're right about my responding to anonymous. The racial imbalance in all this is a fact, like the other references I cited and "unarmed", in context, was in reference to firearms. I didn't intend to confuse you with that or with the other facts, either. If you want to bring a knife to a gunfight, be my guest. Darwin will rule.

BillyWitchDoctor said...

So now it's not a matter of self-defense--but rather of winning a "gunfight." Not so well-played, Frosty.

Thanks for going to the trouble of confirming that you're a racist scumbag. Exit's over there. You know how a door works, right?

"My horseshit is facts! Your facts is horseshit!"
--The Frosty "Cogent" Counterargument

Frosty said...

Thanks for making all my points and ignoring facts at the same time, Billy. You'll never have Hemorrhoids.

Kaitlyn said...

Frosty - how do muggers know if random people are armed? Do you get x-ray vision when you become a criminal?

Frosty said...

No, Kaitlyn, no X-Ray vision or psychic powers. It's much simpler than that. You (generically speaking) find areas with legislation that make it difficult or impossible to own or conceal firearms. Then you and your criminal friends use that church, school, city, or state, to provide a victim pool of people who, by one regulation, law or another, are unlikely or forbidden to be armed. This is unlike you and your criminal friends (still generically speaking) who do have mostly illegally obtained guns and are perfectly willing to use them to break other laws as well.

Much better odds of success than blackjack or poker.

BillyWitchDoctor said...

As you can see, Kaitlyn, Frosty is such a genius that he thinks "generically speaking" is the correct phrase (although the thrill he gives himself by typing "you and your criminal friends" is unmistakable, in spite of his disclaimer). He also is apparently an expert in determining statistical odds...or else he's just pulling things out of his ass wholesale.

Frosty's ilk doesn't (or, if you like, "Frosty and his criminal friends don't") give a damn about the ubiquitous "little old lady mugging victim" any more than war nuts honestly "support the troops." This is about some shriveldick's favorite toys and how he needs (neeeeeeeeeeeeeeds) them to compensate for inadequacies in his manhood. He will cherry-pick, or just make up, whatever he thinks will "win" this argument with a handful of people on the Internet (an argument he lost way back when he sided with the creep who cited The Color Of Crime, so nicely debunked by Michael).

Short version: Frosty has a tiny little bug penis. (Waaaaaaaaah.)

Sorry, Frosty, I know it's all so childish but I save my A-game debating for people with frontal lobes.

Frosty said...

Poor Billy! You haven't got an A-Game, can't get on topic never mind stay on it, a perfect Troll. Keep on showing any remaining readers how well you flame and lose even more credibility.

I, for one, am done with your juvenile baiting. Real discussion welcome with others.